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 The Book of Enoch (Noah's Grandfather)
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Admin
Forum Administrator

Saint Kitts and Nevis
114 Posts

Posted - 16 Oct 2001 :  16:44:15  Show Profile  Visit Admin's Homepage  Reply with Quote
The Book of Enoch (ver. 1.1 Updated 05Nov01)

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"We first learn of Enoch in Genesis 5 but it leaves us with questions. Hebrews 11 has the answers and Jude quotes Enoch! How did Jude come to know the words of Enoch? They are not in the Bible. The answer of course, is The Book of Enoch. A book which is actually quoted by Jude in the New Testament. What is the Book of Enoch and where did it come from?

Enoch was the grandfather of Noah. The Book of Enoch chapter 68:1 "And after that my grandfather Enoch gave me all the secrets in the book and in the parables which had been given to him, and he put them together for me in the words of the book of the parables."

The Book of Enoch was extant centuries before the birth of Christ and yet is considered by many to be more Christian in its theology than Jewish. It was considered scripture by many early Christians. The earliest literature of the so-called "Church Fathers" is filled with references to this mysterious book. The early second century "Epistle of Barnabus" makes much use of the Book of Enoch. Second and Third Century "Church Fathers" like Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Origin and Clement of Alexandria all make use of the Book of Enoch. Tertullian (160-230 C.E) even called the Book of Enoch "Holy Scripture". The Ethiopic Church even added the Book of Enoch to its official canon. It was widely known and read the first three centuries after Christ. This and many other books became discredited after the Council of Laodicea. And being under ban of the authorities, afterwards it gradually passed out of circulation.

At about the time of the Protestant Reformation, there came to be a renewed interest in the Book of Enoch which had long since been lost to the modern world. By the late 1400's rumors began to spread that somewhere a copy of the long lost Book of Enoch might still exist. During this time many books arose claiming to be the long lost book and were later found to be forgeries.

The return of the long lost Book of Enoch to the modern western world is credited to the famous explorer James Bruce, who in 1773 returned from six years in Abyssinia with three Ethiopic copies of the lost book. In 1821 Richard Laurence published the first English translation. The famous R.H. Charles edition was published in 1912. In the following years several portions of the Greek text surfaced. Then with the discovery of cave 4 of the Dead Sea Scrolls, seven fragmentary copies of the Aramaic text were discovered."

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He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err. - Mark 12:27

Edited by - All4Him on 17 Aug 2002 11:20:54

jugito
New Member

USA
2 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2001 :  18:00:32  Show Profile  Visit jugito's Homepage  Reply with Quote
The Book of Enoch was certainly not authored by Noah's grandfather (there is more than one Enoch in the annals of Hebrew history).

But, the Book of Enoch is interesting because the book's description of the Son of Man is the reason Jesus chose "Son of Man" as his moniker.

From this it should be clear that the Hebrews of 2000 years ago saw the book as being scripturally significant. It also indicates that Jesus was not so picky about the utter veracity of the content of a considered religious work. The fact that the Book of Enoch may had errors in it did not deter Jesus from capturing its salient point and using it to further the cause of truth on this world.

We should be just as sensible in our attitudes about the "holy" bible. Not everything in it is true. We know the earth is at least a billion years old and humans have been on this world for a million years. We know God is not a murderer of relatively innocent people, and he would never demand sacrifices from his children in lieu of their being righteous because God is no respecter of persons and cannot be bought off.

However, the bible has many accurate facts about the religious and secular history of the Jews, plus many inspirational stories, poems, and prayers. Just as Jesus kep this in mind when he tried to teach advanced truths to his followers (he did not denigrate or badmouth scripture), so should we. At the same time, we should be slow to claim the whole bible is the inerrant, infallible word of God, for such a claim only makes our beliefs in the value of the life and teachings of Jesus seem laughable to sincere truth seekers.

Edited by - All4Him on 17 Aug 2002 11:25:39
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Admin
Forum Administrator

Saint Kitts and Nevis
114 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2001 :  18:18:11  Show Profile  Visit Admin's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by jugito:
The Book of Enoch was certainly not authored by Noah's grandfather (there is more than one Enoch in the annals of Hebrew history).
There wasn't any such statement made concerning this being written by Noah's Grandfather. I presume, then, you were just making an unattached comment.
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Admin
Forum Administrator

Saint Kitts and Nevis
114 Posts

Posted - 06 Nov 2001 :  01:02:47  Show Profile  Visit Admin's Homepage  Reply with Quote
A new updated version 1.1, based on the 1912 edition by R.H. Charles, is now available by clicking the updated link at the top of this forum.

The new version is formatted and edited for better understanding and printing. Because of the larger size, the new download file is in ZIP format, but the manuscript itself is in MS Word format when you open it up on your hard drive.

He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err. - Mark 12:27
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Shiloh
Senior Member

USA
69 Posts

Posted - 08 Feb 2002 :  09:21:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
jugito stated:
"We should be just as sensible in our attitudes about the "holy" bible. Not everything in it is true. We know the earth is at least a billion years old and humans have been on this world for a million years. We know God is not a murderer of relatively innocent people, and he would never demand sacrifices from his children in lieu of their being righteous because God is no respecter of persons and cannot be bought off."


I can not believe the statements made above. The BIBLE is not in error. Your science is. "We know the earth is at least a billion years old". Really? Who are "we"? True science is like true law. It hears before is judges, however true science and true law are rare these days. There is more than enough evidence to show the Earth is not Billions of years old. However, the Bible (Which is never in error) stated that in the Last days there would be scoffers. I hope by the end of this letter you will think and reason and not live in the "religious world of evolution".

"Evolution is a fairy tale for grownups. This theory has helped nothing in the process of science. It is useless" Professor Louis Bounoure, Former President, Biological Society of Strasbourg, Director of Strasbourg Zoological Museum, France.

EVIDENCE FOR A YOUNG EARTH! First some quotes to make you think...

"Evolution is unproved and unprovable. We believe it only because the only alternative is special creation, and that is unthinkable." Sir Arthur Keith (He wrote the forward to the 100th anniversary edition of Darwin's book, Origin of Species by natural selection.

"How fortunate for those in power that the people never think" Adolf Hitler

"Give me your four year olds, and in a generation I will build a socialist state." Vladimir Lenin

"FACTS do not cease to exist because they are ignored" Aldous Huxley

Now as we know the reasons why evolution is pitched at us as children (Christians know they were made in the image of God and do not make good slaves, while if we came from animals we are expendible and some people are "better and some people are inferior and are best looked after by the select... the select few are masters to the slaves)

Let us now look from the evidence of the Earth not being over 10,000 years old (We are more like 6,000 to 10,000 years old. I personally feel closer to 6,000)

1. The sun is shrinking. If this sun is losing mass and diameter, this means it would have been much larger. This would have upset the gravitational balance that keeps the Earth at just the right distance for life. (Much closer and we would burn up. Farther away we would have been a frozen mass). Billions of years old... we would have been burnt up.

2. The existence of short period comet indicates the universe is not billions of years old.

3. Fossil meteorites are very rare in layer other than top layers of earth. This indicates that the layers were not exposed for millions of years. If it was billions of years old there would be literly billions. The earth gets hit by meteorites often each year.

4. The MOON is receding a few inches a year. Billions of years ago the moon would have been much closer. Infact the Moon would have been so close that tides would have been much higher. Eroding Continents quickly... besides, it is hard to have life on earth if it drowns twice a day.

5. The moon contains considerable quanities of U236 and Th230, both are short lived isotopes that would have been long gone if the moon is billions (millions) of years old.

6. Saturn's rings are unstable, indicating they are not Billions of years old.

7. The slowing spin of the earth (Yes, we are slowing... ever hear of a leap second. This happens to account for the slowing). If we are billions of years old this would mean we were going really really fast. (Is that what happened to the dinosaurs......... Whish..... off the planet? In fact Dinosaurs have lived and still live with man.)

8. A relatively small amount of sediment is now on the ocean floor, indicating only a few thousand years.

9. The largest stalactites and flowstone formations in the world could have been formed easily in 4400 years (Did you know there are huge mineral deposit stalactites under Abraham Lincoln at the Lincoln Memorial.

10. How come the oldest tree we have is less than 4400 years old?

11. The largest desert (Sahara) is expanding at a rate that would make it easily able to have been formed in a few thousand years.

12. Salt is slowly erroding into the oceans making them saltier. If they were billions of years old the oceans would be much saltier.

13. Ice accumulation at the poles indicates less than 5000 years old.

14. Current Population of the earth (6 billion souls) could have been easily been generated from 8 people (from Noah's flood) in less than 4000 years.

15. The oldest coral reef in the world is less than 4200 years old, the great barrier reef near Austraila.

16. The genetic load is increasing. Geneticists have cataloged 1300 genetic disorders in the human race. If man was made perfect as the Bible states, and the Bible teaches that we live in a sin-cursed world... why are we getting more disorders and not less? Evolution is a progression... not a degression.

17. The oldest known historical records are less than 6000 years old.

18. Many ancient cultures have storites of an original creation in the past and a world wide flood. Nearly 300 of those flood legends are known.

19. Count back year current back to Noah (Using the Bible's generations as a guide... about 4,000-4400 years. Interesting remember the age of the Reef, stalactites, flowstone formations, desert expantion, ice at the poles.... all around 4000-5000. Now use the ages of the people and there deaths in the Bible from Noah back to Adam. About 6000 years old.

Now please note... YOU CAN NOT BE A CHRISTIAN AND BELIEVE IN EVOLUTION! BECAUSE OF THE ADAM SIN ENTERED THE WORLD... and death by sin. How can you believe that there was death before Adam unless God is lying. If there was death before Adam's sin, than Jesus did not need to die for our sins... because sin was not the reason for death, according to evolutionary thoughts.

To find out more proofs for CREATION vs. Evolution... check out:
www.drdino.com
www.icr.org

As for Humans being on the earth for millions of years...

There is no such evidence. There has been ever found one missing link. I would go into much detail about the "evidence" that has been "found" (more like made up), but I will just tell you to look for the book "BONES OF CONTENTION." It is a real eye opener.

As for your "We know God is not a murderer of relatively innocent people", I believe Jesus put it best.

"[Mat 19:16] And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
[Mat 19:17] And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

How could a Good God, not punish wickedness. If you were to allow your son to kill are you not now a party to the crime. A good God can not let one sin go unpunished.

[Mal 2:17] Ye have wearied the Lord with your words. Yet ye say, Wherein have we wearied him? When ye say, Every one that doeth evil is good in the sight of the Lord, and he delighteth in them; or, Where is the God of judgment?

To say, God will over look a sin (no matter how small) is like you going before a judge in a court room and saying. "Yes, I did run over and kill 5 school children as they were getting out of schoolbus, but at least I wasn't speeding." Do you think the Judge will overlook the murders to commend you for your tolerance of speed control?

When God tells us something we must heed it. In the old testiment a hand was stretched out to steady the Ark of Covenant... a good intention, but a wrong move. The man was struck dead. God does not need our help, but we by grace need his to have life.

As for the sacrifices... what was the sacrifices? A perfect lamb, a perfect turtledove, a perfect...

Why was this blood shed? To please God? NO! It was a reminder to man to look forward to the one who was perfect... whose blood would cover our sins.
Look back at the Garden of Eden. Adam and Eve covered themselves with leaves... God was the one who covered them with the fur of an animal. God was the one who killed the first "covering" of sin. Death is the only satisfaction of a sin. The wages of sin is death, but... we have the LIFE ETERNAL THROUGH FAITH IN THE "COVERING" BLOOD of JESUS"!

If God demands death for sin, but loves us enough to take his son in our place, he is a just God. If he does not punish wrong he is not Just, but a party to our sins.

If I go to court and say, "Your honor, I am guilty I did brake the window." He will say, "Can you pay for the window?". I can not. I would go to jail unless someone else states, "Your honor, I will pay the fine".

If we stand before God (and we ALL will someday soon) and state, "God, I am guilty for many sins. He will have to cast us in hell, because we can not make our life perfect, if we have even one sin and we have many millions. (When we have finished our lives there is no do overs) However, Jesus is there to pay our fines with his perfect life and death for us. His blood covers all our sins.

The Animal sacrifices (and God's first sacrifice in the Garden) are to remind us that we need to atone for our sins and that Blood is the only way how. God never had it in his mind to be bought off, just as the ten commandments are not made to please him. They are for our protection. Attention to them reminds us of our sins and the need to call on Jesus to pay our debts.

I hope this clears up matters. THE BIBLE CAN NOT LIE! If it could lie in one part, than it could lie in all. If creation is a lie, than Jesus could be a lie and you are yet in your sins.

If you wish to rebut this please e-mail me. I will respond in love and understanding. I do not mean to come off as yelling at you, but rather I am speaking in love that you might know God's word is true.

I was raised until my 5th year in school being taught creation. My spirit soared. In 6th grade I attended public "school" where I was feed evolution... I fell from the faith. (Fact: 3/4 of all student attending State Colleges and Universities fall away from the faith before leaving school) A little over a one year ago, I heard a man preaching on Creation. I laughed a bit at him, then I listened, than I learned... Now I know! Now, for the grace of I am a Child of God! I will wear the name of Christ til death! To God be the Glory.

Shiloh

Edited by - All4Him on 17 Aug 2002 11:24:19
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sambo1011
Occasional Poster

USA
10 Posts

Posted - 08 Feb 2002 :  18:31:42  Show Profile  Visit sambo1011's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Thanks Shiloh,
Well said.

If the Bible is not true then "we are most miserable" as Paul said. This site and all our efforts to understand the Bible is a waste of time. Eat, drink, and be merry from tomorrow you die, should be our mantra. Due to our government indoctrination we have been deceived. Fortunately Biblical Creation evidence is easy find, and it is also easy to disprove "millions and millions of years". Billions of years is the devil's device to get people to doubt the Bible. Obviously it works. The difficult topic is God's law which is what this site is about. If you do not understand the simplicity of Creation's truth how will you understand what His law?

As for a Book of Enoch, I never read it, but now that it has been made available I will take a look, Thanks. If we are questioning men's decision to exclude it from the Cannon, should we not also question men who are reported to accept the book? Even more important how do we know that "the" book of Enoch is found? I suppose this same discussion can be made for the book of Jasher (I have read), many errors, but some great insight if even partially true. But partial truth is doubt.

Edited by - All4Him on 17 Aug 2002 11:25:11
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Shiloh
Senior Member

USA
69 Posts

Posted - 09 Feb 2002 :  15:42:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
One interesting thought about Evolution. Have you noticed that the devil always reverses God's word?

1. God says days, Devil years.
2. God say direct creation, Devil chance.
3. God said "Man is the image of God", Devil said, "Lower form of animal"
4. God said Man came from dust (land), Devil said "we crawled out of water"
5. God said man should have rule over animals, Devil says "they are out equals, and should be given special rights"

Interesting how if you look at the Devils words it is always the reverse of God.

1. God says Homosexuals are an abomination, Devil says it is just an alternative lifestye we should tolerate.
2. God says "Woe unto them that take an innocent life, Devil says "A woman should have a choice" and "population control"
3. God says "Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord in vein, Devil says "FREEDOM of speach".
4. God says "remember the sabboth day", Devil says, "What miss overtime?", "That was the old testiment laws... they are abolished"
5. God says, "Thou shalt not commit adultery" and "Fornicators and adulteres God will judge", Devil says, "Would you ever buys shoes without trying them on?" and "It is not adultery... it is an affair". ect.
6. God says, "Tarry not long at the wine", Devil says, "Life is a party, you only live once".
7. God says don't covet the Lord will provide, The devil says "Boy wouldn't that be great to own." and "Just 3 easy payments of ..."
8. God says "thou shalt not steal", Devil says "No one is going to miss one paperclip" and "Well you worked really hard and they owe it to you." and "Who cares everyone else is doing it."
9. God says his word is true seven times over, Devil says "Seriously, you can't expect me to buy all that miracle stuff and other myths"

There is just too many examples that the Devil says God is lying. Science has never proved the Bible wrong yet, but the Bible has proven Science wrong time after time.

1. "The world is flat" (Devil)

God says [Isa 40:22] It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers;

2. You have to remove the blood to cure "Blood letting" (George Washington was just one who died from this, his Bible was only 4 feet from his bed)- Devil

God says [Lev 17:11] For the life of the flesh is in the blood:

These are just a few.


From a Calvin and Hobbs cartoon:

My lifes motto is "You can never tell when a you will step out in front of a car so life each day like it is your last. What is your lifes motto?"

(the answer) "Look down the road."


What is your lifes motto?


Shiloh
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