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DanielJacob
Advanced Member

USA
138 Posts

Posted - 24 Jul 2002 :  13:17:10  Show Profile  Visit DanielJacob's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Greetings Brothers;

While I can agree with much of your last post concerning those that can not or will not make the "leap of faith" required to exit the system for a myriad of reasons, I am still having a difficult time trying to reconcile in my mind the fact that the Corporation Sole, and other instruments of the type, is still just a creation of man.

Here’s my problem. I understand trusts, that is where I started out years ago, but later I realized that I was involved in a fraud of deceiving myself; believing that I could hold on too all those things which Father had allowed me to use, after all, I was making six figures a year and I had lots of "goodies". But, how could I profess to be a bondman of the Christ, and yet, still try to be part of that system which he condemned, acting as a Trustee (Officer) of a man created device? To me it’s like being a little bit pregnant. As I understand my study, limited as it is in this area, the corporation sole was a creation of the Bishops of Rome, to "own" property and accumulate wealth after having taken a vow of poverty, my point being that this whole concept is based on a fraud. It is this corruption of the world, that we can "own" things that is so ingrained in us from childhood, that it is difficult to "pluck it out" and "cast it away".

If, as I believe, the vast majority of us were "educated" in the public fool system, then we have been well indoctrinated in the concept of "ownership" (thing worship). After all, this so-called "nation" was founded upon the very principles of "ownership", although it sounds better when you call it "Freedom". Most of us also, I believe, have been indoctrinated with this same concept in the modern day "Churches" that preach the "Health and Wealth Gospel" and tell their members and visitors that they are "the children of a King" and therefore "God wants you to be successful, God wants you to have every disire of your heart", "God wants you to be wealthy".

While it is true that we are the children of the Living God, and translated into His Kingdom in and through His Son, Christ Jesus, our Father provides for our needs, if we get our self-will out of the way and just do what he tells us to do. It’s our "wants", not our "needs" that the world counts on to control those that have chosen to accumulate things here on earth. But I digress and state the obvious.

Although I have no interest in the use such a device, what I want to know, has this concept been tried with success against the forces of man’s government? The same with the idea that one can "void" loans. I am completely familiar with Tom’s work. I have spoken to him face to face; studied all of his materials, and read his books. And while I believe what he says about the system is true, I don’t believe his methods can be successfully applied on a large scale. I have never seen or heard any example of anyone that was successful in their attempts.

There are "supposedly" non disclosure agreements. The only real example that I every saw was of one "person" that was tied up in litigation for years without any resolution, meaning that it can be revisited at the pleasure of the bondholders and in the mean time they sit and wonder when the next round of attacks begin. This is the biggest problem that people face today anyway. They don’t want to spend all their time in litigation or being a guest at the gray bar hotel. So it is much easier to just "bend the knee" and "just all get along". After all, we have the greatest most free nation in the world, right?

And while we are at it, let’s be brutally honest, most people are just not equipped, or want, to learn the fine points of procedural law that it takes to sustain an attack from the limitless efforts of the government. They are given the idea that they just need to generate some paperwork, file a few documents, and "puff" everything is just A-OK. "Hey, we don’t have to worry about those agents anymore, we are free. I got this piece of paper right here that says so. I gave notice and grace."

My point is this; if you can’t walk the walk and talk the talk (of the Christ) you are just fooling yourself that pieces of paper are going to protect you from government intervention, abatements not with standing. Even the most upright, devout, observant, God fearing, meek, humble bondman of the Christ is going to have "encounters" and "tribulations" with the forces of the purported U.S. government and it’s various body politics and agents. Only study, prayer, and grace of God the Father, in and through His precious son, Christ Jesus, is going to save you.

Just one more point, and forgive me if I have miss read your words, but I don't believe that we are to "operate in commerce" as followers of Christ. Further I don't believe that going to the market to aquire those this which sustain us is operating in commerce. To me, operating in commerce is to be in pursuit of profit, better known as "filthy lucre".

My our Lords Peace be with you always...

Edited by - DanielJacob on 24 Jul 2002 13:29:47
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rdm
Regular Member

USA
26 Posts

Posted - 24 Jul 2002 :  15:20:54  Show Profile  Visit rdm's Homepage  Send rdm a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
You bring up many relevant and important topics in evaluating the use of Corporation Soles. The flesh continually struggles with the spirit and visa versa. But we have to face the fact that we are BOTH flesh and spirit while living on this planet. Until we pass on into new spiritual bodies we have to address both our physical and spiritual needs.

1. Motive. Is it being done to "own" things, or to protect the resouces God has given you as steward for furthing his Kingdom? Motive is everything.

2. The alleged "fictional" nature. It isn't "real" in the sense you can touch it. It is merely a construct of the imagination formulated to further its stated Mission. Is it "real"? The utility of it is real and can be used to function within man's world, while establishing your otherwordly status and marching orders subject to a Higher Law and Order.

3. Whether using a corp sole is "moral" or "dishonest" is a matter of personal opinion. Personally I see two worlds, man's and God's and a need for one to interact with the other. Man's world is not real and is a set of constructs of the imagination. God's world is the substance we stand on, see and touch and the laws governing His creation. While we are creations in God's world, many of us are still functioning within man's world of commerce and need a means of interacting with it until we can become independently supporting outside of it. There is a way out of commerce for the industrious who can build the capital resources and skills to be independent of man's system. This is not a simple road to travel and wont be achieved over-night. Especially for people with large families. So the Corp Sole is simply a means of interacting with man's world of commerce and nothing more. The intent of the user determines the morality of the use.

4. As far as successful use and cases on Corp Soles in the face of Government challenges, there are many. You can find many cases and resources at:
http://www.paperadvantage.org/CorpSoleStatutes.html

5. Re: Debt cancelation. Tom's books are good, but a bit dated. I have the dueprocess.org books on the subject which give more specific remedies. You say you haven't heard of any successes. That is strange. Most claim 100% success in canceling all credit card and unsecured debt. The tricky part is the collateralized debts, which some now claim has been licked:

Only recently have mortgage pay-offs by promisary note and debt validation strategies become successfully. Personally I've successfully elminated credit collectors and am just beginning to use the Promissary note/validation of debt strategy as outlined in the new 3rd Edition of Cracking the Code. It is a 14 page document, very strong, that will keep you out of courts (or else pay you rather large fees for your time). According to Jason on one of BBCOA's conference calls about their CTC book he claimed many personal successes using it on smaller debts and knows of 15 mortgage cases that were successfully eliminated with their process. It is hard to explain the whole thing, but typsetting the 14 page document has given me an idea why it has been so successful so for. It is much stronger than anything else I've ever seen on the subject.

It comes in several parts and combines many powerful features in one document. (1) Name Copyright with stiff fines for unauthorized use after Notice, (2) assumes you are already the Secured Party in a UCC Financing Statement against "your" STRAWMAN, (3) Admin. Remedy Demand, (4) Notice by Written Communcation/Security Agreement of name copyright, (5) Offer of Performance by promissory note, (6) actual Certified Promissory Note (7) Verification of Tender of Payment and Notice of Reservation of Right for Initating Counterclaim and for Filing Claim Against Bond, and (8) Debt Collector Disclosure Statement

This makes it the strongest document I have yet seen from the many various debt challenging strategies I've heard of so far. It is hard to explain it all since there are so many factors, but together it makes for a much more formidable weapon to use against the blood-sucking usurers.

6. Apathy, propaganda, laziness and unwilliness to stand up against the Goliaths. Have to agree with much of your assessment, but can assure people who have a little gumption that there are processes now available that is making it easier for more people to resist without as much "know-how". Processes that are accomplished outside of court. Methods of protecting your name from being charged without your permission. Methods of Collecting on the violations of your name-copyright without courts through Strict Foreclosure. There are even people willing to collect on these for you for a 50/50 split so the effort of collecting can be avoided.

If any of that sounds interesting get the new audio seminars to learn more from the MV Spoken Word Hotline Server. Instructions for downloading are at: http://www.angelfire.com/sd2/rdm/mvsw.html

As knowledge increases in all these "freedom technologies", so does the streamlining of the process. Much less is required to know in order to use these methodologies as long as you grasp the principles involved. When we leave retreatist/defensive strategies and find nuclear powered methods for protecting our personal property the task of securing our commercial lives becomes simpler.

7. Should Christians "operate in commerce". Again motive is everything. For most who aren't independently self-supporting it is an unavoidable neccessity. Those who do it for just the accumulation of "filthy lucre" as you put it are obviously functioning on a lower moral agenda. But since commerce is unavoidable, we still need to interact with it in our way out of the it. Until we can all be Shepherd Kings on our own piece of untaxed land with large herds of animals and farms for growing the neccessities of life we are faced with dealing in the realm of commerce. So we should put into practice as many of your original stated strategies for lessoning our dependence on commerce. But there will still be some interaction as we trade for goods and services we can't produce on our own.

Office of the Overseer for the Popular Assembly of Redemptive Dominion Missions, a corporation sole, and his successors.
http://www.angelfire.com/sd2/rdm
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DanielJacob
Advanced Member

USA
138 Posts

Posted - 24 Jul 2002 :  17:28:14  Show Profile  Visit DanielJacob's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Thank you for your frank and open explainations. It seems there is a lot of infomation to go through as I checked out the web pages you posted. I look forward to the time when we will continue this exchange of viewpoints and ideas. Until that time may our Lord and Master, Christ Jesus, continue to bless you.

Peace unto you and yours.

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DanielJacob
Advanced Member

USA
138 Posts

Posted - 25 Jul 2002 :  22:22:20  Show Profile  Visit DanielJacob's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Greetings Brothers:

Well, I have read more about this "Corporation Sole" and I am still unmoved in my impressions of such schemes. The overriding thing that keeps hitting me in the face is that it is squarely and securely rooted in commerce. It is this very Commerce that gives the governments of the world their so-called authority to be so intrusive into peoples lives in the first place. If one examines closely all of the rules, regulations, statutes, etc., they would find that they are, except for common law crimes, entirely for commercial regulation and taxation. All of the existing courts today are equity courts, i.e. commercial courts; all the traffic regulations are commercial, even the word "traffic" is a totally commercial word; all of the tax regulations are commercial, etc. etc. etc. It is the "presumption" of commercial activity that give the so-called law enforcement types probable cause to ask you for license and registration or ask you for identification. You must have license if you are engaged in commercial activity because that activity is not a common or God given right such as free movement upon the common way.

Once again, I must point out that the man of God the Father is not involved in commerce when he goes to market to purchase goods for the sustaining of the body. The man of God the Father is not involved in commerce when he works for people on a one to one basis. The man of God the Father is not involved in commerce when he exercises his movement upon the common ways for doing fellowship. I will point out that working for a corporation, re-creating, and traveling do constitute commercial activity, and these activities are subject to regulation and taxation. After all, someone has to pay for all that regulating, so that those who are getting the benefits, privileges, and opportunities don’t get more than the next guy getting benefits, privileges, and opportunities.

In my studies I also learned that this "Corporation Sole" is a modern concept having its roots in the early fifteenth century. This is over three hundred years after the legal memory of man (A.D. 1189) and therefore is subject to the same arbitrary and capricious norms set for the rest of man’s modern law. The bottom line is that if you are involved in litigation, you are at the mercy of the court. For those that don’t know, there is no stare decisis anymore. Cases are tried on their own merits and pertain only to the litigating parties, and the judge is under no obligation to take judicial notice of other cases. That is not to say that he/she won’t but he/she doesn’t have too.

In the different State statutes that I read concerning the "Corporation Sole" or concerning "Religious Societies" (different States have different but similar controlling statutes), each and every one clearly states that you "must" be a "natural person" in order to hold the office that is in effect incorporated. Further, when it is stated that this is not for "everyone", that is a very true statement. Again, in my reading of the statutes, within any one group, their is one and "only one" person that is considered the "Corporation Sole". This means that this person can have control of all the assets of the group but only his named successor would assume the "Corporation Sole" upon his passing or possible resignation.

Quite frankly, I must say that I really don’t see that much difference between the "Corporation Sole" and the classic 501.C.3 "Church". On the one hand you have an individual that is afforded benefits, privileges, and opportunities not afforded to the rest of the assembly, and, on the other hand you have a group of people that have benefits, privileges, and opportunities not available to the rest of the congregation. Both are commercial entities, both are joined to the un-God-ly State, and both have no scriptural authorization.

This is only my assessment, but that is the way I see it. For those that choose to take this approach I bid them, fare thou well, as I am sure that they would wish those of us who choose to follow the more narrow road, fare thou well. I would like to suggest that everyone reading these pages to view the Nevada Revised Statues concerning "Corporation Sole", you can find them at http://www.leg.state.nv.us/NRS/NRS-084.html

You can also see the North Carolina General Statute 61-5 at
http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/statutes/generalstatutes/html/bychapter/chapter_61.html

Also Maitland’s "The Corporation Sole" at http://www.paperadvantage.org/Maitland.html

And, "The Modern Corporation Sole" by James B. O’Hara, Dickinson Law Review, 1988 at http://members.aol.com/liberty097/2extrainfo.htm

That way you can reach your own conclusion based on your own readings.

May the peace of Lord be with you always.
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Paraclete45
New Member

Mexico
3 Posts

Posted - 26 Jul 2002 :  17:36:46  Show Profile  Visit Paraclete45's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Some (poorly written) Corporations Sole DO attempt to operate under commercial law (UCC = Uniform Caananite Code), but the better Corporations Sole do not.

The Tanach makes a big point, from Genesis all the way through second Chronicles (Hebrew order of Table-of-Contents) that we must be Qodesh, or separated out of the world. Incidentally, there is a big difference, Scripturally, between "the world" and "the Earth." We are the salt of the earth, but we are to be separated from the world.

In order to come out from among them and touch not the unclean thing, in order that Yahuweh will receive us, we must interface with commerce (the Caananites) by figuratively using "rubber gloves" for handling their monetary instruments and other commercial tools. A Corporation Sole with well-written articles can provide this pair of rubber gloves, and when used in concert with other procedures, can actually provide double or multiple barriers against contamination by the world.

I have seen articles of incorporation for soles that have the phrase "the overseer is ecclesiastically and commercially called...." Well, there went any potential protection!!! Others make the statements that the sole can engage in commercial liens, edge banking, etc. Again, bye-bye protection.

Then again, there are articles for Soles like I write that retain all of the protection, in every area, and are definitely NOT COMMERCIAL.

The detractors from the idea of using Corporation Sole are simply lacking in experience of seeing a well-written, well researched corporation sole. Either that, or they have an axe to grind (offer a pure trust, or some such), or they are too fearful to give up their driver's licenses, SSN's, and other anchors to the commercial world, and are just self-justifying by pointing fingers.

That's my two bits worth.
Paraclete45 (paltalk name)
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doer
Advanced Member

uSA
198 Posts

Posted - 07 Aug 2002 :  04:06:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
DanielJacob writes,

“The overriding thing that keeps hitting me in the face is that it is squarely and securely rooted in commerce. It is this very Commerce that gives the governments of the world their so-called authority to be so intrusive into peoples lives in the first place.”


You must be ASSUMING that “Commerce” is inherently evil.

Please understand a VERY BASIC TRUTH --

“COMMERCE” GIVES NO AUTHORITY TO THE GOVERNMENT -- NOR TO ANYONE ELSE!

WE – WE – WE – WE – WE - WE – WE – WE – WE – WE – WE – WE ! ! !

WE GIVE governments and men authority over us! – by entering into CONTRACT with them (knowingly or unknowingly).

We must understand that "creations of man" are not inherently evil -- only the use to which we put them. "By their fruits shall ye judge them." And did not our Creator enjoin us to "be fruitful and multiply?" And did He not charge us to be good stewards of His Earth? And how are we to be good stewards over His Creation -- except by using all manner of TOOLS? Is a hammer evil? It can be used to build -- or to destroy. THE HAMMER IS ONLY A TOOL -- TO BE USED FOR GOOD OR ILL. So it is with any other tool -- whether material, legal, commercial, physical, psychic, mental, spiritual, or whatever! It is OUR USE of the tool that makes the work good or evil. And I, for one, see the ENORMOUS POTENTIAL for using the "tools of commerce," and the "legal tools," and the "tools of government," etc. FOR OUR BENEFIT!

Do you know what is the GREATEST TOOL IN THE UNIVERSE?

THINK about it --

It is the human MIND.

So here, in this woe-begotten world, we have the fruits of this tool. And we can see the great evil that human minds have created, and we can see the great good that human minds have created.

We are all born into this world in a fog. It is a very long time before a few of us discover that, "Something is amiss here!" Most of the others leave this world as they entered it -- they die in a fog. So we cannot be expected to transcend all of our schooling, all of our "socialization," all of our PROGRAMMING, in one great leap. It is truly IMPOSSIBLE for most of us to leave the world behind -- to live alone in the wilderness.

It is like climbing to the top of the Great Mountain. We must take one step at a time. We must put one foot in front of the other. As we climb higher, we begin to see more -- we begin to "gain new perspective." As we climb higher, we ask ourselves, "why did I not see that before?" As we climb higher, we begin to see the whole Universe before us and beneath us. As we climb higher, we wonder why we did not begin sooner, in earnest. As we climb higher, we begin to understand that we can NEVER go back to where we began the journey. We are now at a very different level from the rest of the World. But it has taken us eons to get to where we now are. And the journey has been arduous -- fraught with stumblings, serious falls, and great suffering. But for our efforts, we have been rewarded far beyond what the world can give us. Truly -- "all the money on earth" cannot buy this marvelous view we now have of The World.

On the other hand, all the ones who remained behind, are not redeemable, nor even accessible, to our voices -- great as our desire is, to beckon them come join us. They are not only, not with us on the slopes of the Great Mountain; they are not only, not at the foot of the Great Mountain; they are not only, not approaching the Great Mountain; they are not only, NOT SEEING the Great Mountain -- THEY CANNOT EVEN CONCEIVE THAT SUCH A GREAT MOUNTAIN EXISTS!!!

So we cannot expect the "average human" to understand where we are, nor what we have experienced, nor where we are really going. We can only attempt to call to them -- as if from a very great distance -- in the faint hope that they can hear our beckoning -- and follow our EXAMPLE.

WE CANNOT DEFEAT THE GREAT EVIL ONE!!!!

Only our Creator can do that -- using humans as His agents.

Why would He limit us to using one method or another? Has He not given each of us unique Souls -- with distinct characteristics? Are we all to use only one particular design of a hammer?

EACH SITUATION IS DIFFERENT AND UNIQUE!!!

Therefore, we must all find "our own" individual, unique PATH -- back to our Creator.

If our motive is pure -- then verily we can use EVIL as a TOOL!!!

Even snake venom has a good use -- in the manufacture of anti-venom!

Be Well,

George
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Manuel
Advanced Member

USA
762 Posts

Posted - 09 Aug 2002 :  11:18:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Greetings In Jesus, The Christ,
I'm reading an ad where it says:
"PhaseI bailment in gold (14 ounces) or silver (400 ounces) preferred.
Will accept current legal tender 4K for Phase I.
Then as it goes on it says "A Biblically based Corporation Sole."

Beware of wolves in sheeps clothing,
Manuel
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rdm
Regular Member

USA
26 Posts

Posted - 14 Aug 2002 :  18:00:14  Show Profile  Visit rdm's Homepage  Send rdm a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
DanielJacob writes,

“The overriding thing that keeps hitting me in the face is that it is squarely and securely rooted in commerce. It is this very Commerce that gives the governments of the world their so-called authority to be so intrusive into peoples lives in the first place.”


How does Commerce give governments of the world their "so-called authority to be so intrusive into people's lives"?

If we break down Commerce to its basic components what do we find? A Covenant/Contract, right? After all, there can be no exchange of goods and services without a written or implied contract. So is Commerce inherently evil? It goes hand in hand with the verse that says "the LOVE OF money is the root of all evil". Money isn't evil in itself, but the lust (love) of it is evil. There is no escaping commerce. But what we can do is operate in commerce by God's Laws - just weight and measure, workman is worthy of his hire, etc. God's Word has a lot to say about economics (i.e. commerce).

There is an excellent book for people who struggling with this issue may find useful. It is called "Productive Christians in the Age of Guilt Manipulators" by David Chilton. You can download it free at:
http://www.freebooks.com/docs/_bkssubj.htm#economics

Office of the Overseer for the Popular Assembly of Redemptive Dominion Missions, a corporation sole, and his successors.
http://www.angelfire.com/sd2/rdm
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Owenbrittont
Advanced Member

USA
86 Posts

Posted - 27 Oct 2002 :  12:01:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have been doing more studying on Corporation Sole. I noticed that a lot of corp soles are drwn up by attorneys but others are actually linked to a church.
Anyone know of any church founded Corp Soles that are not linked to the Holy See (Catholic Church)?

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Silver
Junior Member

USA
22 Posts

Posted - 18 Dec 2002 :  20:34:13  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Alright guys, i know very well that this is a very late posting. but no body has told me that i can't post or add to a old posting, not when I see that there are a lot of folks reading this, but not saying a "dam" word.... hum... I have been doing some investagion in to this matter, and have
decided to share what I have come to believe is the right way to deal with this subject matter.

First off the bat... there are two kinds of "corporation sole". the one that we want to deal with
is what is known as the "Ecclesiastic Corporate Sole". Now there is one thing about this "tool",
its like building a house. one first needs to file the UCC-1 form, and then file the CS.
Ucc is like building the house, and the (CS) the Corporate sole is the plumbing and wiring in the house. if one only files the Ucc, and dose not file the CS, then the job is only half done.
Both forms needs to be filed, together if possible.

There is one thing about this Ucc and CS. the CS is a ecclesiastic, in which we claim Christ as
our Law Maker. So if we claim Christ as our Law Maker, then on the Ucc, Christ needs to be the
creditor, not the man of Flesh and Blood. We can not and have no power to redeem oursleves from
sin. Christ paid the price for us in Blood, upon the Cross. So when we claim Christ as the rightful owner of the Strawman, the state has to prove it, and throw it out the window.

But the Job is only half done, if we claim Christ as the creditor on the Ucc Form, we need to finish this business, by filing the ecclesiastic CS, and when that is done, then the State has no
power to touch us, for we then become above the State. Remember this, and never forget it,
The State is subject to the Ecclesiastic power of Rome, the Ecclesiastic power of a Church !
And as Followers of Christ, we are preist of God, and rule with him here on earth. and when we
take the steps to claim what is righjtfully ours, then the state becomes powerless to do anything
to us, unless Rome, tells them what to do.

I myself have not done any of this yet. But I will be doing it and will have it done before the year is over. Its the only way to put a stop to the police, to prevent them from harrassing and arresting any further.

So friends, please take another careful look at this UCC and CS, and don't be so quick to throw
the lovely sweet baby out the window with the bubble bath water !

In looking this stuff over, I can see some very good Stuff. both forms are like a key to the jail
doors, in which we have been shut up in for so long. Let me give you just one hint of a possible
blessing that could be ours, just by taking the Steps to freedom.

In the Bible times, a man could have more than one woman, but because of pressure from Civil Rome,
and later, from the Ecclesiastic Rome, this custom had to be dropped, and the direction came from the Lord to a Jewish Rabbi, that it this was to be discontinue, until the year 5000 AD. The marriage as it is today, is controlled by the State, not the Ecclesiastic Church.

So the point here is this, when the UCC and the CS is filled out in the propewr manner, the family
life becomes free of the State control. So therefore that means, if there are two women in love
with with one man, and are willing to share one man, they can do so. There no statement to be
found anywhere in the Bible, in which one can point to and say that God forbids this.

The Ucc and the CS, together, will open up a complete new world for those who love God.
Let us Step forth in faith. If you need more information on how to claim Christ as the Creditor,
feel free to contact me, and I will be happy to discuss it with you.

This UCC and CS is a powerful tool for our time, like the rod in the hand of Moses. Let us take
hold of this rod, and hold out it over the Red Sea, and cross over to the other side....

May God Bless you all...

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jamesedwin
Occasional Poster

USA
7 Posts

Posted - 19 Dec 2002 :  13:13:25  Show Profile  Visit jamesedwin's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I would like to hear some more in-depth conversation and thought following Silver's remarks.
Anyone else followed this example with positive results?

I am still waiting for the Spirit of Truth to reveal to me God's Word in my heart and mind so I know what path is right.
Please pray for me that this happens so I may share and spread His Light.

Peace and blessings,
James Edwin
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doer
Advanced Member

uSA
198 Posts

Posted - 19 Dec 2002 :  18:46:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
James Edwin

Be of good cheer! You are sincere in your quest for Truth, and that is the ONLY thing that matters! The Master said, "Seek and ye shall find." He did not say where to seek. He did not say how to seek. He did not say how long to seek. Only SEEK.

Eventually you will find the Truth. ONLY KEEP SEEKING. For you see, James Edwin, your faith is being tried here. Is is strong enough? Will it pass the test? Will you survive? Only HE knows your heart, and you must NEVER let HIM down, for HE has NEVER let YOU down.

As for Silver's remarks -- they do not make too much sense to me. I see no need to incorporate. The only reason for doing any of this GARBAGE -- is to get the ABOMINATION off our backs. The abomination called Government. So try one method or another -- it really does not matter too much. The process will educate you, which seems to be a great need on your part right now. In the course of events, you can share your experiences with the group. After all, this is the purpose of such a vehicle -- for our mutual enlightenment and benefit.

I really need to contact Silver directly, because his posts are not very clear. They are full of typos, and he cannot even spell his own name correctly! How much does that tell about his understanding?

As for me -- I am in the process of the UCC filing. So will keep you and the group posted as to my progress and results.

Be Well,
Doer
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underhorse
Junior Member

USA
20 Posts

Posted - 27 Dec 2002 :  15:53:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Question,
Isn't the whole point and direction of the "redemtion" process to be free of the "contracts" of the worldly obligations to serve? This why I personally have filed "all these papers". So that I might serve only one master. Our covienent (read contract)with our creator says I must come out of her (Babylonian sysytem). Do you know of any other way, except to give notice(file papers)to those who presume to have contract with me?
(spell checker not used for your amusement)
And where is this accountant that can have this corporation sole papers filed for $300.00. The group www.UCCSG.com offers this for $400.00, and I still don't have the ready resources to do so.
I do live without an SSI, drivers or any other kind of license, lawfully. But I also live from "hand to mouth". Trusting in Him who created me.
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doer
Advanced Member

uSA
198 Posts

Posted - 28 Dec 2002 :  04:30:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Underhorse,

It would be interesting to hear of your "run-ins" with The System regarding no licenses. What strategy, and what LAW do you use to abate their intimidation?

Doer
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n/a
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20 Posts

Posted - 20 May 2003 :  20:13:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
A simple and revealing fact. To register a "corp sole" in the state of Nevada is a mere $25. Let that speak for itself.
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Lewish
Advanced Member

uSA
496 Posts

Posted - 20 May 2003 :  20:51:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ah, but you must be very careful in doing a corporation sole, or you will wind up putting yourself under the jurisdiction of the Holy Roman Empire, who originated the corporation sole. All Monarchs of Europe are corporation soles and all claim allegience to Rome.

Look at how the King of England signed the first treaty with the revolutionaries. "George, Prince of the Holy Roman Empire, King of England".

To be under bondage to Rome is to be under bondage to Caesar, so you haven't gained a thing.

Just my $0.02 worth,

Lewis
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n/a
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20 Posts

Posted - 22 May 2003 :  01:24:58  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
A corp. sole in Nevada is an easy thing to keep the godless socialistic state out of your estate... The simpler the better. The strength is in the bylaws, which are not a matter of public record.

NRS 84.010 Formation. Corporations may be formed for acquiring, holding or disposing of church or religious society property, for the benefit of religion, for works of charity, and for public worship, in the manner provided in this chapter.

[1:55:1915; 1919 RL p. 2681; NCL § 3223]

NRS 84.020 Articles of incorporation: Authority to make, subscribe and file. An archbishop, bishop, president, trustee in trust, president of stake, president of congregation, overseer, presiding elder, district superintendent, other presiding officer or clergyman of a church or religious society or denomination, who has been chosen, elected or appointed in conformity with the constitution, canons, rites, regulations or discipline of the church or religious society or denomination, and in whom is vested the legal title to property held for the purposes, use or benefit of the church or religious society or denomination, may make and subscribe written articles of incorporation, in duplicate, and file one copy of the articles, together with a certificate of acceptance of appointment executed by the resident agent of the corporation, in the office of the secretary of state and retain possession of the other.

[2:55:1915; A 1949, 283; 1943 NCL § 3224]—(NRS A 1993, 1008; 1995, 1125; 1999, 1609; 2001, 101)

NRS 84.030 Articles of incorporation: Required provisions. The articles of incorporation must specify:

1. The name of the corporation, which must be the name of the person making and subscribing the articles and the title of his office in the church or religious society, naming it if desired, and followed by the words “and his successors, a corporation sole,” or the title of his office in the church or religious society, naming it if desired, and followed by the words “and his successors, a corporation sole.”

2. The object of the corporation.

3. The title of the person making the articles, and the manner in which any vacancy occurring in the incumbency of an archbishop, bishop, president, trustee in trust, president of stake, president of congregation, overseer, presiding elder, district superintendent, other presiding officer or clergyman is required by the rules, regulations or discipline of such church, society or denomination to be filled.

4. The name of the natural person or corporation designated as the corporation’s resident agent, the street address for the service of process, and the mailing address if different from the street address.

[3:55:1915; A 1917, 22; 1949, 283; 1943 NCL § 3225]—(NRS A 1991, 1292; 1993, 1009)


Edited by - n/a on 22 May 2003 01:28:27
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n/a
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19 Posts

Posted - 07 Sep 2003 :  02:19:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hello--I was trying to followup on your line of infomation through the "MV Spoken Word-Hotline Server", but I couldn't find the IP Address for MVSW. The following information from the MVSW site:

- Hotline Server address IP: rks.ath.cx
- Temporary login/password: mvsw/mvsw

gives me the following ERROR message when I try to connect through Hotline Connect Client: "Remote host refused connection."

Please Advise
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n/a
deleted

20 Posts

Posted - 11 Dec 2003 :  13:48:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi,

I'm new to this site, but I have gone through all the posts on this subject. I find DanielJ to be a bit of an extremist, but that is his right. He doesn't seem to understand that everything is contained within a system, and simply cutting yourself off from the daily conveniences, does not mean the system doesn't recognize you, or that you are no longer a part of it.

I cannot recall the exact scripture at the moment, but there are several that speak of being in the world but not of it, and not in the misinterpretation he stated. I refer to scriptures that tell us to be as schrewd as vipers, but innocent as doves...(I'm not quoting verbatim here), or the parable about the servants...the ones who invested their talents, and the one who didn't. These speak of utilizing the systems that are established here on earth. Again as rdm has stated on the regular, it's about the motivation of one's heart. It is apparent that from the mouth, the heart speaketh, and with Daniel, he has clearly indicated that his heart cannot handle the temptations or moral dilemnas within the system, thus he has chosen to cut himself off from it. So be it, and more power to you. But for those of us who can handle and operate with the governing system set up and authorized by God, no matter how corrupt man may have twisted it...we can invest our talents accordingly, and reap the blessings and benefits that God has provided within the systems in their original organization or idealogy.

That said, someone mentioned this site: www.UCCSG.com, and I went there and found nothing of the information that was stated was there.

Additionally, rdm, I looked at your site, as well as many others on corporate sole. I need someone to explain to me this thing about businesses and corporate sole. What I'm referring to is can a corporate sole conduct business of any sort...if so, what sort? Furthermore, this conflict in my mind arises from the fact that several sites state that you cannot do business as a corporate sole, and some state you can, but that you are then linked back to the IRS, and the tax benefit is gone.
My dilemna in understanding this is in the fact that churches sell books, audio, and a variety of gift items. So I don't understand if this is done via a division, a separate corporation under the corporate sole, or within the organization of the corporate sole itself.

I am a writer, and I want to be able to sell my books and offer other writers information and services. I am not sure what format to proceed under because I do want the corporate sole, and I am aware that a corporate sole does have assets and can purchase and sell such. So my question leads back to the commerce question and puts a slightly new spin on it.

Would the corporate sole be an umbrella corporation, so to speak, over sub-corporations or divisions, in order for me to market my books? Please check this site link: http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=267&invol=333
before answering, because when I found this...it created more questions, and from what I see on this site...businesses can be a corporate sole...it's just not that clear, and I want to do what's right. Thanks for your assistance.
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n/a
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20 Posts

Posted - 11 Dec 2003 :  13:52:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
One more thing...if the business is funding the organization/corporate sole...does this variable make a difference in the answer? Because that is the plan...for the business to fund the nonprofit/corporate sole organization. Thanks again.
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